Xtrata Pulling images from incorrect directories

Xtrata Pulling images from incorrect directories

Postby MartinB » Wed Dec 26, 2007 2:57 pm

Our large format scanner scans 400 dpi normally, Xtrata will kick back images that are of different dpi. So basically I dragged the batch back to QC, replaced the image with a 300 dpi image, and when it went back through Xtrata it seemed to have re-inserted the 400 dpi image. My counterpart says he thinks Xtrata is not using some images that were replaced in QC. But he didn't actually show me cases where this happened other than in this large format.

Is this possible? Has anyone had any experience with this?

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Re: Xtrata Pulling images from incorrect directories

Postby David » Thu Dec 27, 2007 3:57 pm

MartinB wrote:Our large format scanner scans 400 dpi normally, Xtrata will kick back images that are of different dpi. So basically I dragged the batch back to QC, replaced the image with a 300 dpi image, and when it went back through Xtrata it seemed to have re-inserted the 400 dpi image. My counterpart says he thinks Xtrata is not using some images that were replaced in QC. But he didn't actually show me cases where this happened other than in this large format.

Is this possible? Has anyone had any experience with this?

Thanks,

What exactly is 'large format' in this case? DPI is only resolution not size format. 400 dpi is somewhat more than we normally use on scan resolution, but it is not extreme.
Talking about resolutions, have you read these:
http://knowledgebase.kofax.com/faqsearch/results.aspx?QAID=7235
http://knowledgebase.kofax.com/faqsearch/results.aspx?QAID=5727
I think there is more to be read in the Xtrata 1.7 documentation on this subject.
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Postby russell@centuryc.com » Fri Dec 28, 2007 12:42 pm

I believe that Xtrata will complain if the images are not exactly 200 or 300 dpi.

I don't know why Xtrata would continue to have an issue if the images were replaced with appropriately scanned images. Since you seem to be getting things second hand, I'd suggest verifying the situation and verifying the DPI of the replaced images.
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Postby David » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:35 pm

Agreed.
But I still wonder on the size /format matter. Not sure what - if anything - Xtrata says on size larger than A3 :oops: but for the sake of discussion; A3 is not that big format. Much larger size is not unlikely when it comes to the document size and scanning part. I think we both have some experience on that 8)
Perhaps there are unpredictable results when a document with larger size is processed in AC/Xtrata? (given that it is indeed possible to try...).
As one of the kb:s says;"Xtrata is designed to process pages with a physical size between A6 and A3.".

As I get it, the problem in this case seems to be known to occur precisely on the large size documents. But then again, and as you say, it is second hand information and would make use of some more confirmation. Also, the example given by the counterpart didn't exclude other sizes did it; it just showed that the problem occurred on larger sizes, nothing more. With some confirmation on the sizes and some exlusion, the problem could perhaps be 'boxed in'.
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Postby russell@centuryc.com » Fri Dec 28, 2007 3:43 pm

I've had problems with Xtrata failing on large images. I think it's more prone when they are "dirty" (lots of shaded areas). I think the real question is what is the error message? If it's DPI, it will tell you up front.
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Postby MartinB » Mon Dec 31, 2007 3:30 pm

My question was really to see if anyone had encountered, when you ran a QC module BEFORE the Xtrata server, Xtrata pulling the 'original' images back into the document rather than keeping the ones corrected in the QC module.

I only mentioned the large format because thats where I first saw the problem, someone scanned something in on accident at 400 DPI on a large format scanner. The Xtrata server rejected the document because of the 400 DPI vs everything else being 300 DPI. When we replaced the 400 DPI image with the 300 DPI image, they ran it back through Xtrata only to find that the original 400 DPI image had been put back.

They were able to re-create the issue for me. My counterpart mentioned that he also saw instances where standard letter sized grayscale documents appeared side-by-side with the bitonal images they replaced in the QC module, after running back through the Xtrata server. I haven't seen that one first hand.

I am more inclined to believe that the problem arose from user-error, I just wanted to check to see if anyone else had run into something like that.

I'm sorry if my question was unclear.
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Postby russell@centuryc.com » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:02 pm

What version Ascent? Xtrata? Kofax Service packs?

What are you scanning in? (Color, grayscale, bitonal). Something is lurking in the back of my mind that when you scan color or grayscale, that a bitonal copy is created for some processes to work on. Perhaps only the displayed copy is getting replaced and not the bitonal working copy.
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Postby MartinB » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:39 pm

AC 7.5 service pack 4, Xtrata svc pack 1. That may be, honestly. I'm really trying to get a hold of an Xtrata Pro demo, see how worth it that would be.
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Postby russell@centuryc.com » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:46 pm

There is a SP5 for Ascent, but I don't see anything fixed that looks like it would cover this. I assume you're on Xtrata 1.7 and not 1.5.

I understand Xtrata Pro is a very different animal. It's been awhile since I've seen the screen shots, but the similarity in the name may be as close as it gets.
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Postby MartinB » Mon Dec 31, 2007 4:52 pm

Yeah, I'd really like to see it in action with some of my stuff. The idea behind Xtrata is really neat, but it seems to be lacking a bit on its follow-through, it does things its supposed to do, but only halfway well enough. Also there seems to be very little understanding on how exactly it works, at least I haven't found any resources beyond the commercial garbage.
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Postby David » Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:22 pm

MartinB wrote:Yeah, I'd really like to see it in action with some of my stuff. The idea behind Xtrata is really neat, but it seems to be lacking a bit on its follow-through, it does things its supposed to do, but only halfway well enough. Also there seems to be very little understanding on how exactly it works, at least I haven't found any resources beyond the commercial garbage.

While I very much think that the documentation, training and samples could very much be improved, there is a few kb articles that add a few details to the manual. Even if they are few and pretty slim, they are at least not sales talk/commercial garbage…

Regardless: you must update to Xtrata 1.7 if you run 1.5. I am sorry but I can not tell for sure if you still run the much worse 1.5 version or not.

I guess one of the problems with Xtrata is that Kofax hasn't really made up their mind on what the main focus is with the product. Some seems to think it is mainly for sorting documents, others that is enhances AC recognition results (by always running after scanning and before Recognition; preparing all documents for Recognition). Sometimes I think it is like a Switz army knife, but with features you need to a) find and b) try out before you can judge if they are needed or not... :roll:

Xtrata Pro is not in the same galaxy as Xtrata.
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Postby MartinB » Mon Feb 04, 2008 3:10 pm

I am definitely running Xtrata 1.7

By not in the same galaxy do you mean good or bad?
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Postby russell@centuryc.com » Mon Feb 04, 2008 4:17 pm

MartinB wrote:By not in the same galaxy do you mean good or bad?


Totally different product.

Judging from the name, you'd think that Xtrata Pro is an improved version of Xtrata. It's not. It's unrelated.
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